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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 09:32:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Testy Mctest
Evidently nothing we propose or say on this forum gets listened to. The original design specifications - that is to say, the Maelstrom is a ******* big pile of absolute utter ****, outclassed by all of the other Tier 3 BSes even *with* the Hyperion having one dodgy bonus.
This game's never going to be balanced until the devs admit that split slot layouts suck, and that going 5 m/s faster than other ships doesn't make up for having a small cap and low base hp.
I started a thread a while ago, asking people if they felt the game was balanced or not. And most of them felt it was. I wish I had asked them to say what race they played though.
And Tuxford are probably reading this thread and many others (hi tux), but he simply has his vision of what this ship is going to be and its not going to change alot. He'll probably change the shield boost bonus for resistance and thats it.
I can understand his thinking a little though. The other races get ships that improves their race advantages in the game and so does minmatar:
Rohk - caldari needed a fleet ship.
Hyperion - gallente had problems getting in range, so they get a fast blasterboat.
Abaddon - One ship to do it all... either tank OR gank using the same ship.
Maelstrom - Slightly better fleet sniper than Tempest, but by very little.
I dont know, maybe Tuxford noticed that Tempests had to leave battle as soon as they started taking fire and decided to make the next minnie boat a shield tanker. Shield tanks are generally better at soaking up a bit of damage for a short period of time. The only problem is that the ship cant have a good shield tank and tracking gear at the same time. Its shield tank will probably be worse than the Tempest armor tank in fleets.
Personally, Im not interested in fleet sniping. So why take minmatar to battleship level when other races can do both fleet sniping and also good solo pvp (gallente)?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 09:43:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Riho
lol, the OP should chill out. those ships are not ingame even.... not even on the TEST server.
nobody knows the exactly how they will turn out.... time to panic and flame is when we can test them on test server. then u can acctually fly them and see how OP or crap they are.
Stop saying this please. We have had 2 blogs on these new ships and blogs are not meant to be ignored and not discussed. I know the final stats are not ready, but since Tux is reading these forums, im sure he is interested in opinions while the ships are still in a stage where things can be changed.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:02:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Ishan Shade
Jup IÆm pretty sure I know what race Tux his main isà.
Tux is Amarr. 
That would explain alot.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: KilROCK
Yes, It explains why he hasn't replied to a 51 pages amarr topic containing several hundred people screaming their mind out for a bit of balance.
Yes, obviously he's amarr.. 
I was mostly being ironic, considering the sad state of the Maelstrom. Im sure Tux is trying to balance the game no matter what race he plays. Its not a easy task, but it wouldnt kill him to take a look at all the whining and see if people actually do have some fair points.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: KilROCK
Too bad right now we have to deal with several thousands of whiners since Tuxford is away for a week or more on vacation..
Now he's going to have alot of fun reading all this junk when he comes back..
Yeah well, thats part of his job. Im not having a blast every day at my job either.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 03/08/2006 10:19:47
Someone explain to me why its bad to make this ship into a armor tanker please.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 10:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Give me:
8/6/5-6
25% ROF/Damage
50% Optimal
And let me do what the hell I want with the tank. Problem solved.
I think 8/5/7 is better. Plates, damage mods, hardeners in the lows, tracking computers and sensor boosters in the mediums.
Bonuses: 25% armor resists, 25% damage
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Are you saying falloff is not good for an AC boat?
What does the geddon (which I dont fly anymore, despite the constant temptation) have to do with anything?
Its not an AC boat!
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 10:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Are you saying falloff is not good for an AC boat?
What does the geddon (which I dont fly anymore, despite the constant temptation) have to do with anything?
Its not an AC boat!
And Dominix is not an EW boat...what's your point?
My point is that you are discussing AC related bonuses for a ship that is designed to be a shield tanking artillery platform. If you dont like it, talk to Tux.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Are you saying falloff is not good for an AC boat?
What does the geddon (which I dont fly anymore, despite the constant temptation) have to do with anything?
Its not an AC boat!
It may not be, but artillery is dull, so I'll be damn well trying my hardest to use it as one. Just for the craic really.
Then again, given thant I've been grinding Gallante BS skills....I'll probably just get in the Hyperion.
I know and I very much agree. Personally im not going to use this boat if it turns out to be a artillery shield tanker. And yes, im going for the Hyperion too, once I have finished skilling for the Vagabond. Btw, im sure that ship will get nerfed soon too since its minmatar and not gallente.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Arngorf
Originally by: welsh wizard
It's a nerf Caldari thread in disguise!
Lets just wait and see shall we?
NO!!! 
/me goes to buy and stock up Waa-waa-waa candies.
/me ignores Jenny until she says something constructive for a change
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Aloysius Knight
just f1 f2 f2 etc and watch your sheild tank
See, Caldari are SO BROKEN that they can afford to turn their second gun OFF in combat!
A Minmatar and his duct tape keyboard. Pushing blame to Caldari. 
You almost have an entire page of this thread discussing your flamebait post now...I really dont see why you must do things like this.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
IMHO, I dont really see this as flamebait. I dont think I am provoking anybody and calling names here and there. I was only replying the threads. If you consider what I wrote as flames then all of your new posts about Minmatar stuffs in the forums are really spams. Not that we all need more Minmatar threads discussing the same thing for an entire topic page.
You jump into every minmatar thread with useless posts like "stop pre-emptive whining" or "balance is fine", giving no reasons at all, and you dont think its provocative for the people who has specialized in minmatar and should know what they are talking about?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think 8/5/7 is better. Plates, damage mods, hardeners in the lows, tracking computers and sensor boosters in the mediums.
Bonuses: 25% armor resists, 25% damage
how about not. i dont think the minnies really need an armortanking bs with more than 70% em resistance to start with.
Really? Have you compared the dps between the Abaddon and the Maelstrom too? Abaddon will become the highest dps range ship in the game, while the cap last. So yes, I think minmatar needs armor resistance to stand a frigging chance at all.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Jim McGregor
But like you say, I dont think medium range is very hot in this game... :/
Blame T2 ammos TBH.
Yeah. I actually like your suggestion about t1 ammo + "special effects", but I dont think ccp will do something about it.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Really? Have you compared the dps between the Abaddon and the Maelstrom too? Abaddon will become the highest dps range ship in the game, while the cap last. So yes, I think minmatar needs armor resistance to stand a frigging chance at all.
what you wanted to say there was it will have the highest laser-dps.
against an armortanked minmatar battelship it will already face 70% em resists without any tank on at all. add to that the eanmII+dc tank and it doesnt really look so bad for the minnies anymore. now you want to give them a 25% armor resist bonus on top of it? sure that sounds like a good idea.
also..there are some more lasers boats besides the geddon/abaddon. i assume you want those to just turn around and warp off when they come across your bs then.
you may have noticed that people are already complaining about the suckyness of em-damage without such a ship around.
Both the Abaddon and the Rohk gets 25% resistance vs all. Why cant the Maelstrom with its crappy dps and poor range? But maybe thats why Tux made it a shield tanker.. the 0% default EM resist. Die minmatar, die.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 12:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Ishida Akiko
Account buyers ftl.
Be a little more specific. Are you referring to yourself...or someone else?
Or better yet... stay out of this thread. Probably one of the most off topic posts ever.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 12:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
i was really thinking that you were aware of how easy it s to armor-tank em damage and what kind of damage lasers do.
just take a look at the base armor resists on amarrian ships and then take a look at the kind of damage our enemies (the minnies) do mostly with their weapons.
then have a look at base armor resists on minmatar ships and compare those to the kind of damage their enemies (amarrians) do mostly with their weapons.
Well, I am aware of those things. Currently flying minmatar and yes, despite having such high dps, your guns dont really hurt when I use a armor tank. I guess its designed that way for storyline reasons.
But minmatar have other holes in the armor instead. We all get the same amount of resists, just on different damage types. So while you might be having a hard time killing minmatar, you will have a easier time killing gallente. Its not really a reason to not give minmatar good resists vs all just because you fly amarr and want to be able to do more damage to that specific race. Or do you feel im wrong here?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 13:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: Wrayeth
One of the things that consistently amuses me is how Amarr pilots keep saying that they can't beat an armor-tanked tempest because of resists. This is patently not true.
not talking about a tempest here btw. but about a 7 lowslot minmatar bs with a 25% armor resist bonus as proposed by Jim McGregor
I dont think it will happen though. Besides, im going gallente for the battleship level so feel free to kick my ass. =)
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.08.03 20:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xoduse
Originally by: Testy Mctest
The original design specifications - that is to say, the Maelstrom is a ******* big pile of absolute utter ****, outclassed by all of the other Tier 3 BSes even *with* the Hyperion having one dodgy bonus.
And there goes my lemonade all over the monitor in a volley of laughter...F1-F7 Ion Blaster Cannon II style. I wasnt ready for such an outburst from Mr Testy.
Its always the quiet ones...
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 09:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Yes, I was rather upset at the time. I've since calmed down and am now back in my usual state of calm and collection :)
We'll see what the final slot layout becomes. I expect the bonus to be changed to shield resistance instead of shield boosting. At least that will make it slighly more useful. And perhaps there is some hope of turning it into a good autocannon platform if you have tacklers. The dps of autocannons and drones are actually very good on this ship, so if you can dedicate 5 medium slots to tanking (1 MWD), it will be hard to take down I think.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Pesadel0
The real question is do we (minies) really need another artilleries platform?
Not really. But 3 out of 4 races got a slightly improved version of what they already had. Amarr with a modified Apoc, Minmatar with a modified Tempest and Gallente with a modified Megathron. Only Caldari got a ship for a completely new purpose really.
Personally I would have made the tier 3 very different from tier 1/2 for all races except Caldari. Possibly give minnie a missile ship, give gallente a EW boat and give amarr a drone carrier. But i guess they are afraid to mess up balance. Just look at what the Rohk does to balance... and thats one ship. :/
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:58:00 -
[23]
I still think that if they want to make it a proper artillery boat, they shoiuld give it DMG bonus so it has a powerful alpha strike. The problem with this however, and with the entire minmatar race, is that ccp are trying to move away from high damage alpha strikes since nobody likes getting fragged by one hit from 200 km away. :)
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mr Bright
Still if its 10% the maelstrom would become a mobile sentrygun of sorts. Not as much range as the other snipers, but better at hitting the targets (provided it actually gets better tracking that the rest of the sniper guns). Maybe do a 7.5% ROF and tracking?
I like the idea of a medium ranged autocannon platform with -50% rof but +50% range. But it doesnt matter what we come up with here... the ships are basicly already designed and Tux wont change them. They are made to be part of a fleet and not small group pvp anyway.
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